[antir-heralds] CC: Argent, a semi of leaves vert, on a madrone tree eradicated gules, leaved vert (as in the branch device), a rapier Or.

[Britt]

> checking: Argent, a semi of leaves vert, on a madrone tree eradicated
> gules, leaved vert (as in the branch device), a rapier Or.

semy of leaves, not 'a semy', as semy means 'scattered' and you cannot
have a scattered (toddlers notwithstanding).  A semi is a big truck
and since it's OOP, not registrable as heraldry. :)

> Cian Mac Dara:  Argent, on an tree eradicated gules a harp Or.
> There will be one CD for the semi of leaves (X.4.b).
> I'm guessing there might be a CD for the leaves (X.4.d) but am not sure

Why guess when Laurel has said?

     [a linden tree eradicated proper] Conflict with ... Argent, a
tree eradicated vert. ... The SCA has
     consistently not given difference for the tincture change between
a tree vert and a tree proper
     (vert with a brown trunk). There is no type difference between a
linden tree and a default
     round-shaped tree, as a linden tree has roughly the same shape as
an oak tree, which is the
     model for the default heraldic tree. [Karl von Lindenheim, 05/03,
R-Atlantia]

     [Per fess argent and vert, an oak tree eradicated counterchanged]
This is clear of ... Per fess
     argent and azure, a tree Or leaved vert. While it is true that
changing just the trunk of a tree
     does not normally generate difference, the tincture of Arthur's
tree is per fess vert and argent,
     i.e., 1/2 vert and 1/2 argent; therefore there is a CD for change
of tincture of at least 1/2 the
     charge. [Arthur Watson, 06/00, A-East]

The leaves are the tincture, not the trunk, though blazon usually uses
'leaved vert' as it's easier to envision than 'trunked gules'.

> (I tried to go to the Madrone website to look at their device but got an
> error) if there's enough vert to count as half the charge.  I suspect
> there probably is.

Don't do that.  What's registered and what's used i practice might be
terribly different.  Looking at currently used armory that's already
registered is rarely going to be of much use.  The IL archive can
help, since emblazons found there were the submitted ones for certain,
but otherwise there is no guarantee that the use version of armory has
anything more than a nodding acquaintance with the picture that was
registered (I spent a few years with Wreath finding this to be a
Truth).

> I believe you only get half a CD for changing the rapier to a harp as
> that's a tertiary charge and therefore needs two differences to qualify
> for X.4.j.

WOAH!
Repeat after me: "There is no such thing as half a CD."
Now repeat it another 99 times. :)

CDs are absolute - you get one or you do not.  Here, since the only
change is type and a tree does not qualify for X.4.j.ii. there is no
CD.  Nothing by halves, that concept was abandoned with the advent of
the new rules in 1990.  And there has been great rejoicing.

> If there is a CD for the tincture of the tree, it's clear; otherwise it
> conflicts.
>
> Note: I found it a bit confusing that some of Madrone's badges are
> listed under Tree - Rounded shape - 1 - Gules and others under Tree -
> Rounded shape - 1 - Vert, although the tree is blazoned the same (as
> well as one in the latter group which is blazoned 'proper'.

That would be the decision of Morsulus Herald based on the blazon of
the tree being gules <detailed> vert.  I'll drop him a line and it
will almost definitely require someone checking emblazons to figure
out where which of Madrone's trees should be listed.

Here's what else I found:

Talmon Wilbanks - May of 2000 (via Ansteorra): Argent, on a tree
proper two swords inverted in saltire argent, a bordure azure.
CDs for changing tincture (x.4.d.) and type (X.4.e.) and number
(X.4.f.) of the secondary charge group from bordure azure to semy of
leaves vert. Then ther's that X.4.j. CD for changing
number+tincture+orientation of the tertiary charge group.

<snort>  So essentially nothing.  Looks like the badge proposal is clear.

-Teceangl