[antir-heralds] cc: Argent, a frog azure within a bordure sable

[chrisact at qwickconnect.net]

Jillian Bower wrote:

> Greetings :)
> Putting on the conflict checking hat which I rarely do, for practice purposes:
> Proposed Device: Argent, a frog azure within a bordure sable

{snip}

> * Nicolete de Brabant (August 1997 via Caid)
> Argent, a turtle tergiant azure a bordure sable.
> 
> CD1: changing the primary charge from a turtle to a frog (RfS X.4.e)
> I am unsure if this device and the proposed device are simple enough to fall under RfS X.2. If they are not, this device conflicts with the proposed device - there is no CD for changing the posture or tincture of the primary charge.

Greetings!

As per the glossary (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/coagloss.html), a bordure 
is a "Peripheral Charge (Group)," and thus not a "Primary Charge (Group)." 
Since Rfs X.2 only concerns itself with primary charges, and since there is 
"no more than two types of charge directly on the field and...no overall 
charges," both devices might fall under Rfs X.2.

However, X.2 reads (in part) "Simple armory does not conflict with other 
simple armory if the type of every primary charge is *!substantially!* 
changed" (emphasis added). Since the frog and the turtle are both the same 
tincture and the same posture, I would think X.2 does not apply. If so, 
then the problem you cited (that there's at most 1 CD) comes up, and the 
proposed device conflicts.

BTW: I only looked (in http://oanda.sca.org/cgi-bin/oanda_complex.cgi) for 
frogs *&* bordures. Thank you for pointing out to me (indirectly as it may 
be) that I should have checked for frogs *or* bordures. As they say, live 
and learn. ;-)

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