[antir-heralds] Conflict check and blazon Help - Per Bend Or and Purpure, A Triquerta purpure

[Jillian Bower]

Good morning :)

Yay, more stuff to practice conflict checking on! Here goes...

Proposed device: Per bend Or and purpure, a triquerta purpure and a rose Or, slipped and leaved vert

RfS X.1 says that because this armory has a primary charge group, it won't conflict with Per bend Or and purpure or Per bend Or and purpure + peripheral charge (bordure, orle, tressure, chief, base, etc.).

RfS X.2 says, "For purposes of this rule, simple armory is defined as armory that has no more than two types of charge directly on the field and has no overall charges." The proposed device meets this criteria. For X.2 to clear a device, all types of charges have to be substantially changed.

So, here we go to the Ordinary. We'll start with "Flower - Rose - 1 - Or". Nothing here that is even close.  "Flower - Rose - 2" yields:

* Christiana Roeys (January 2006 via Gleann Abhann):
Per bend sinister Or and purpure, two cinquefoils pierced counterchanged

You get one CD for changing the line of partition from "per bend sinister" to "per bend" by RfS X.4.a.
You get a second CD for changing the type of half the charges in the primary charge group (purpure cinquefoil to purpure triquerta) by RfS X.4.e.

Next, because I was already on the "F" page of the Ordinary, I checked "Field division - Per bend - Or - and purpure". Nothing. On to knots!

Ordinary category "Knot" yields nothing. Ordinary category "Triquerta":

* Aythan Pengrek (November 2005 via Atenveldt):
Per chevron Or and purpure, two triquetras and a natural leopard's head erased affronty counterchanged

There is one CD for changing the line of partition from "per chevron" to "per bend" by RfS X.4.a.
There is a second CD for changing the type of half the charges in the primary charge group by RfS X.4.e because the bottom charge counts as "half" when there are three primary charges.
There is a third CD for changing the number of charges in the primary charge group from three to two by RfS X.4.f.

So I think it is clear. This is getting more fun now :)

--
In joyful service to the Summits and An Tir,
Lady Áine Steele
Löwenmähne Herald

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Britt <tierna.britt at gmail.com>
> > It is Per Bend Or and Purpure, a Triquerta Purpure and a modern rose Or,
> > slipped and leaved vert.
> >
> > I am not sure of the proper use of the terminology.  The device is split
> > from top left to bottom right with the gold on top and the purple on bottom.
> > The Triquerta knot is purple on the gold and the rose is gold with a green
> > stem and leaves on the purple.
> >
> > Any and all help in geting the right wording is greatly appreciated.  This
> > is my weakest spot with doing device heraldry.
> 
> Style before conflict, remember.
> You blazon's pretty good.  In heraldry a rose is a rose is a rose so
> just blazon it 'a rose'.  The natural, used to be called 'garden' rose
> is still registerable, though unattested in period heraldry. But it
> faces all the conflict issues of an heraldic rose, which means no
> difference from cinquefoils or five- or six-petaled flowers.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> [in chief two garden rosebuds] The charges in chief were originally
> blazoned as garden roses, but they are drawn as rosebuds. Rosebuds
> have not been registerable since the cover letter for the LoAR of
> November 1994, as they are not period style. Please note that, by the
> same cover letter ruling, roses drawn in a natural style (also known
> as "garden roses") are blazoned in the same way as roses drawn in a
> heraldic style. Each style of rose is blazoned simply as a rose. [Ása
> lúfa, 07/02, R-Calontir]
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The 'triquetra knot' is ambiguous. There is a trefoil knot, which is
> three loops with rounded ends, and there is a triquetra which is three
> pointed-ended loops. The trefoil knot might be a period charge, the
> triquetra isn't but is compatible with period style. So which is it,
> pointed triquetra or rounded trefoil knot?  Should be point up by
> default, so if not what's the orientation?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ... there is no difference between a triquetra and a trefoil knot. The
> triquetra has pointier ends than the trefoil knot, but this slight
> change is insufficient to give type difference between these two
> charges. [Donnan of Whispering Wude, 04/03, R-East]
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Per bend Or and purpure, a triquetra/trefoil knot purpure and a rose
> Or slipped and leaved vert.
> 
> You're right to blazon each tincture because 'counterchanged' covers
> all the charges in the group and the triquetra/trefoil knot isn't
> slipped and leaved, which would be ambiguous if the tinctures weren't
> named specifically.
> 
> Now, style. Triquetrae are not, I believe, period charges, neither are
> natural roses. However, Laurel has ruled each registerable.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> The commentary is in, with a clear majority of commenters in favor of
> adopting Baron Bruce's proposal that we continue to accept garden
> roses in SCA armory, but simply blazon them as roses.  As a
> consequence, we will immediately and henceforth blazon a rose, whether
> the default heraldic rose or the garden rose, as a rose. (CL 11/94)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> There is no precedent specifically ruling the triquetra registerable,
> but continued registration of same proves that it is.
> 
> Tincture. Purpure triguetra/trefoil knot on Or. Fine. Or rose on
> purpure. Fine. Vert slipping and leaving on purpure?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> [Azure, a camel rampant Or wearing a hat gules and maintaining in its
> mouth a bottle fesswise reversed vert] The hat (which functions as a
> maintained charge) and the maintained bottle both have insufficient
> contrast with the field. This is acceptable for maintained charges,
> which are not worth difference, as long as the charge in question has
> some contrast with the field. [Xenos the Butcher, 06/02, A-Ansteorra]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Since slipping and leaving of a flower don't contribute to difference
> they classify as 'maintained' and so this is acceptable
> _so_long_as_they're_visible_enough_.  Charges vert on partially
> purpure fields have been returned for unidentifiability, so use a
> lighter green.
> 
> Now, I can conflict check this since triquetras and trefoil knots get
> zero heraldic difference.
> 
> There is a primary charge group so X.1. says it's clear of a field per
> bend Or and purpure, or that same field with only a peripheral
> ordinary.
> There are two types of charge on the field, so this qualifies for X.2.
> So I'm going to start with triquetras and knots.  Triquetra first,
> Knot second because I fell like working in that order tonight, no
> other reason. :)
> 
> Nothing there.  Moving on to Flower - Rose (where, if you look at Foil
> - Cinquefoil, all the cinquefoils have been placed for your
> convenience. Nice, huh?).
> 
> Christiana Roeys - January of 2006 (via Gleann Abhann): Per bend
> sinister Or and purpure, two cinquefoils pierced counterchanged.
> One CD by X.4.a.i. for changing the direction of partition lines.
> One CD by X.4.e. for changing the type of half the charges in the group.
> Clear.
> 
> That was the only thing worth mentioning.  Looks clear to me, but
> perhaps Aine or someone can double check my work in case I missed
> something.
> 
> - Teceangl
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