[antir-heralds] CC: Per pale argent and azure...

[chrisact at qwickconnect.net]

Dafydd Caerfyrddin wrote:
> My client would like the following :
>
> Per pale argent and azure, an oak tree proper and on a chief sable three bears sejant erect to sinister argent.
>
>
>
> I found the following possible conflicts:
>
>
>
>   a.. Canice Scrupe 
>     a.. The following device associated with this name was registered in January of 1996 (via Atlantia):
>     Azure, two dolphins urinant respectant and on a chief argent three bears rampant gules.
> I believe this is clear...one CD for changing the primary tincture, one CD for changing the primary charge, one CD for the different posture/tincture of the bears, etc.
>
>   a.. Charles of the Red Oakes 
>     a.. The following badge associated with this name was registered in March of 1984 (via Atlantia):
>     Per pale sable and argent, an oak tree eradicated and blasted gules.
> Again, I believe this to be clear...one CD for changing the tincture, not sure if there is a CD for the difference between a tree blasted and eradicated and a tree proper?, and one ce for the chief and secondary charges.
>
>   a.. Duncan MacGregor of Gleann Abhann 
>     a.. The following device associated with this name was registered in January of 2006 (via Gleann Abhann):
>     Or, in fess a brown bear sejant erect to sinister and an oak tree eradicated fructed proper, a point pointed vert.
> I need some help on this one, let me see if I can get it right...one CD for the change of tincture, one CD for the chief, one CD for each of the charges being different?
>
> Any comments or critiques would be greatly appreciated!!
>
> YIS,
>
> THL Dafydd Caerfyrddin
>   

I find no conflicting device. :-)

BTW, although Ursula is correct, and the proposed device qualifies under 
X.2, I found it simpler to check against "oak trees proper"* and then 
against chiefs sable.

A few moments' thought will make clear that any existent device that 
conflicts with the proposal must show up under either the primary charge 
group (the oak) or the secondary (the chief), in this case at least 
(because there's only one of each). There is no way to avoid it. Thus, 
two checks are enough. Also, this means there's no need to go looking 
for the tertiary charge group (the bears). Also note that this is two 
checks, rather than the nine for checking each tincture.

*NB: While looking for oak trees, the Ordinary redirected me to "Tree - 
Rounded Shape" which, in turn, did not have a sub-division for Proper, 
leading me to Vert.


OOPS! OK, late thought: there *could* be a conflict with an existent 
device with more than one "Tree - Rounded Shape". However, it would have 
to have the same field, since there's one CD for changing the number in 
the primary charge group. That is easy enough to check, and I just did. 
So, I had to make *3* checks. However, the same check would have to be 
made if you were looking through all the "Tree - Rounded Shape" 's. So 
it's still simpler. ;-)

Please, don't misunderstand me; I'm not trying to dictate "the one 
correct way" to conflict check. I'm just explaining how I did it, in the 
hopes others will find something useful. Use whatever you find works, 
and you are comfortable with, and take what I say with a grain of salt. :-)

In service (I deeply hope),
~~Basil Dragonstrike

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