[antir-heralds] Conflict Question

[chrisact at qwickconnect.net]

First, an apology. I missed a conflicting item:
Fearghus mac Domhnaill
* The following badge associated with this name was registered in June 
of 2006 (via Atlantia):
Azure, a bear rampant maintaining an arrow bendwise sinister inverted 
argent within a bordure Or.
Since maintained charges don't count, the proposal only has 1 CD, for 
removing the bordure.


Dafydd Caerfyrddin wrote:

{top posted fixed}

> ----- Original Message ----- From: <chrisact at qwickconnect.net>
> To: "Heralds" <antir-heralds at antir.sca.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [antir-heralds] Conflict Question
>
>
> Dafydd Caerfyrddin wrote:
>> Is a maintained or sustained charge considered a primary or secondary 
>> charge? Is there a point of difference for a different maintained or 
>> sustained charge?
>>
>> My client wants the following badge: Azure a bear sejant erect 
>> contourny argent maintaining an oak branch proper.
>>
>> Does this conflict with:
>> a.. Curteis Svartsælingr
>> a.. The following badge associated with this name was registered in 
>> June of 1997 (via Trimaris):
>> Sable, a bear sejant erect contourny sustaining a double-bitted axe Or.
>> I know there's a CD for changing the tincture from sable to azure, 
>> but not sure if there is another for changing the axe to an oak branch.
>>
>> YIS,
>>
>> THL Dafydd Caerfyrddin
>> hldafydd at gmail.com
>>
>> "Per pale azure and sable, a wolf statant and
>> on a chief argent three Celtic crosses sable."
>>
>
> The proposal has two CD from Curteis; one for the tincture of the field
> and one for the tincture of the bear.
>
>
> One of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard regarding conflict
> checking, is to have the RfS and the Glossary to hand whilst checking.
>
> The Glossary is at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/coagloss.html
>
> It says that a maintained charge is too small to count for differences.
> Thus, the proposal should be checked as if it was "Azure a bear sejant
> erect contourny argent" (keeping an eye out for the oak branch (or
> similar object) is necessary, too, of course).
>
>
> An important precedent:
> [/A bear sejant erect/ vs. /a bear rampant/ or /a bear erect/] In each
> case, there's [not a CD] for the posture of the bear. (Henry of Three
> Needles, August, 1992, pg. 24)
> Laurel Sovereign of Arms: Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme
> LoAR Date: August 1, 1992
>
> Thus, the proposal conflicts with:
> Oleg Ivonovich
> * The following device associated with this name was registered in April
> of 1997 (via the Middle):
> Per pale sable and vert, a bear rampant contourny argent.
> There's only one CD, for the tincture of the field (or for dividing it,
> however you want to look at it---since neither item qualifies under RfS
> X.4.a.ii, it's rather a matter of POV).
>
> It also conflicts with:
> Máirín ben Dhiarmait
> * The following device associated with this name was registered in
> September of 1997 (via Caid):
> Purpure, a bear rampant contourney argent.
> Again, only one CD (tincture of the field). And don't ask me why these
> are both registered.
>
>
> ~~Basil Dragonstrike
>
 > So, if we added the co-primary charge of the oak branch (changing it 
to sustaining), that should clear it, right?
 >
 > Dafydd

It would clear it from the two I listed, as well as the one I missed. It 
may bring it into conflict with something(s) else. Part of the problem 
is just how is the oak branch drawn? That would strongly influence what 
could conflict. For example, I've found some registered items that 
*might* conflict, depending on how the proposal is drawn.

Bjornsborg, Barony of
* The following badge associated with this name was registered in 
September of 2003 (via Ansteorra):
(Fieldless) A bear statant erect reguardant contourny supporting a 
berdiche blade to sinister argent.

Wynne Snowmane of Ravens Keep
* The following device associated with this name was registered in 
September of 1994 (via Caid):
Azure, a bear rampant contourny sustaining a halberd between, in chief, 
two mullets of eight points argent.

Leifr Vagnsson
* The following device associated with this name was registered in 
September of 2003 (via the Outlands):
Quarterly gules and azure, in bend sinister a Danish axe sustained by a 
bear rampant contourny argent.

None of these sound much like an oak branch, assuming said branch looks 
"tree-part-like," and is nice a brown-with-green (in all the above the 
sustained object is argent), but a bad drawing or "off" colors could, 
barely possibly, cause difficulties.

I hope this has helped. :-)


~~Basil Dragonstrike

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